Should Missing Girl Parents' Lifestyle Become an Issue?; Was a
Judge Pressured Into Throwing a Decision?; Rejection on Valentine's
Day
Aired February 14, 2002 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS
FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH
TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE
UPDATED. ALISON STEWART, HOST: The search for Danielle van
Dam, why are so many people talking about her parents'
lifestyle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED
MALE: I am a little loath to start criticizing their
lifestyle, but I can see how bringing different people into
your home that maybe your kids don't know could ultimately be
a threat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART: Also, just
what kind of pressure was the French Olympic skating judge
under?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If
there is an ugly story behind it, then the truth has to be
spoken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART: A teddy bear
scare spooks Olympic security.
And on the day of
Valentines, roses and chocolate, there's sometimes rejection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The
person who gave you this (UNINTELLIGIBLE) does not want to
talk to you or speak to you again. We would like to take this
opportunity to officially reject you.
(END VIDEO
CLIP)
STEWART: Listen in on the heartbreak hotline.
Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE: AMERICA SPEAKS OUT. I'm
Alison Stewart. Happy Valentine's Day.
Well, you know
what, it's really turning to something of an Olympic scandal.
France's Olympic chief now says his country's figure skating
judge was somewhat manipulated into voting for the Russians.
Was the fix in? We'll get more on that in just a minute, but
first let's talk about a suspicious purchase at a Wal-Mart
that has the FBI concerned about Olympic security. CNN
correspondent Rusty Dornin joins us in Salt Lake City, Utah.
And Rusty, we are supposed to beware of bear, is what I
understand.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Beware of
bears on Valentine's Day, that's right.
Apparently,
there was a clerk in a Wal-Mart that was alerted to a purchase
by a clean-shaven what he or she thought was a Middle Eastern
descent, who bought apparently nine bears, Valentine bears,
along with 14 canisters of propane. Now, the bears are 20
inches tall, the cans of propane are about nine inches. He
also bought some beebees, so the concern was that he was
trying to possibly put the propane canisters inside the bears
and create some kind of an explosive device. Obviously, that
could have been carried onto an airplane.
But the thing
that sort of links the two to the Olympics is that during the
figure skating competitions, people often throw teddy bears
and flowers onto the ice after the performances, so of course
there was concern that this might be something that was
destined for the Olympics -- Alison.
STEWART: All
right, Rusty. You have been through a lot of this security,
and say I wasn't a too bright terrorist and I decided to bring
that through the general security. Could you get something
that big in, a 20-inch bear? I understand you are only allowed
to bring small packages in, right?
DORNIN: They don't
even -- very small packages, and they will often make you take
everything out of the packages. They are feeling the size and
shape of things. I think it might be very difficult for
something like that to get through.
STEWART: All
right. Is security still a bit news issue there, still a big
topic?
DORNIN: Not really. I think it's been so high
all along that people are sort of taking it in stride. They
know they have to arrive a little early for the venues to get
through security. I think probably people are deciding to not
bring certain things so they don't get hassled for it. You
know, not bring any large bags or anything like that.
One thing that is interesting is people were not
supposed to bring food to the venues, but apparently they
ordered a half-a-million hot dogs to last through the entire
17 days of the Olympics, and they have completely been
consumed. So now they're telling people they might be allowed
to bring in food, as long as they put them in clear plastic
wrapping, because the hot dogs are all gone.
STEWART:
Half-a-million hot dogs already? Goodness gracious, this is
America. Rusty Dornin, thanks so much for joining us from Salt
Lake City, Utah.
And of course we want to talk about
that Olympic -- the controversy going on. Everybody's heard
about this, right? The Russian team got the gold, many people
thought the silver, which went to the Canadians, should have
gone to the Russian team. We're going to go to Phil Jones --
oh, OK, we don't have Phil Jones. We are going to go to break
first and then maybe we will talk to Phil Jones, from "Sports
Illustrated" CNN and have some more information on that.
TALKBACK LIVE will come back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL
BREAK)
STEWART: OK. You know what, Steve, we are on day
I think it is four of skategate. All right. You told me that
your fiancee won't even watch anymore.
STEVE: That's
right. She has refused to watch anymore of the judged events,
because why would you root for somebody and give them all that
support if the judges aren't going to be fair about it.
STEWART: Helen, you have an opinion about this, I
know.
HELEN: Well, as I said before, I think it's an
absolutely disgrace. The man that's heading up the whole
committee doesn't know anything about ice skating. That was
all over the newspaper.
STEWART: All right. Well, we
are going to a sports reporter from "Sports Illustrated" CNN.
Phil Jones, are you there?
PHIL JONES, CNNSI
CORRESPONDENT: I am indeed.
STEWART: All right, Phil,
want to know -- the big news is about the French judge. What
is the latest?
JONES: Well, the latest is that
International Olympic Committee President Jacques Rogge had
asked for a quick resolution of this matter, and the man in
question that one of your audience is talking about is the
president of the International Skating Union, Ottavio
Cinquanta. He said there is going to be no quick resolution,
that the ISU council meeting, which takes place on Monday,
won't be brought forward, because they are going to wait for
Canada's appeal, study Canada's appeal, and he said they can't
do that in 10 minutes.
Now this is in spite of the
fresh evidence that came forward last night form the chief of
the French Olympic team. Now, his name is Didier Gailhaguet,
and he made this comment, that the French judge in question
may be the pivotal vote in that 5/4 decision for the Russians
over the Canadians, had been pressured to act in a certain
way, and the judge has been somewhat manipulated. But he said
the French Federation in no way had been in any kind of deal
with the Eastern bloc countries in order to gain a victory for
the Russian team over the Canadian team -- Alison.
STEWART: Now, does anyone really know what "somewhat
manipulated" mean? It sounds like being a little bit pregnant.
What does that mean exactly?
JONES: It's very difficult
to gauge exactly what that means, Alison, I know. You know, a
certain amount of pressure put on this French judge. And he
also said that she was of a fragile disposition. I don't quite
know what that means either.
But all we can gauge is
that the French judge in question, a female, has been
approached alleged by somebody within the international figure
skating family, if you like, and was pressured, allegedly
again, into voting a certain way for the Russians over the
Canadians. And obviously, we are going to throw that word
"allegedly" in here, because we know nothing for fact.
STEWART: Well, this allegedly fragile and manipulated
judge, she's still going to work, correct?
JONES:
Well, rumor had it that she had already flown back to France
because of all the pressure. And as far as we know, she has
not yet been seen by any of the media here since this scandal
broke. So we can only assume that she has either taken a
flight back to France or she's lying low here. We've certainly
not seen her here.
STEWART: So the judges are not
speaking to the press. Any of the judges at all?
JONES: No. Actually, they're not allowed to. The ISU
banned that. The only person that is allowed to address the
media would the referee, and he did speak yesterday, Ronald
Fanning (ph). And that's where the ball really started
rolling, where these French allegations were made.
STEWART: All right. Phil Jones, we thank you so much
for joining us and giving us all that great information.
Thanks a bunch.
JONES: Thanks, Alison.
STEWART:
We are going to take a quick break, and be right back with
more of TALKBACK LIVE. Stay with us.
Coming up: The
mysterious disappearance of Danielle van Dam. A missing girl,
a possible suspects and questions about the parents' lifestyle
next on TALKBACK LIVE.
(COMMERCIAL
BREAK)
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
STEWART: ...
February 2. Police say the San Diego girl was kidnapped from
her bedroom in the wee hours of the morning. The investigation
has focused on a neighbor who is being described as a
potential suspect. Danielle's parents are not suspects, and
have been pleading daily for help in finding their daughter.
However, there are suggestions the couple's lifestyle
might be part of the story. "Newsweek" wrote about it this
week. Reporters have asked them about it, and their
spokeswoman has responded in a written statement, quote: "They
do not lead a perfect lifestyle, but they did not kill their
daughter," end quote.
Meet Ana Figueroa, the staff
reporter who wrote about this for "Newsweek" magazine, and
John Timoney, a former Philadelphia police commissioner. He is
CEO of the Beau Dietl & Associates, an investigative and
security firm, and criminal defense attorney Arthur Barens.
Welcome, our guests, everybody.
Ana, let me start with
you. You get this piece of information. There has been
information floating out there. Please explain to the audience
exactly what "Newsweek" reported about this situation?
ANA FIGUEROA, "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE: Well, "Newsweek"
reported that questions about the couple's lifestyle were
interjecting themselves into the story. Basically, since the
time the little girl was abducted, the local media down in San
Diego had been somewhat, you know, badgering the San Diego
police department to get them to confirm these rumors.
Now, they have never confirmed anything officially,
but unofficially police sources started leaking, and by last
Friday it had become somewhat of a local media circus
pertaining to the lifestyle of the parents. So "Newsweek"
reported that the lifestyle of the parents was now a big part
of the story.
STEWART: Now, as a reporter, this idea
of the family engaging in all sorts of different sexual
practices, that becomes a news story because?
FIGUEROA: Well, it doesn't necessarily become a news
story. It may have nothing to do -- in fact, we have no
evidence that the parents' lifestyle -- if the stories are
true -- does have anything to do with the disappearance of the
child.
What we simply did was show that this story had
taken on sort of a life of its own. In other words, the
lifestyle was interjecting itself into the search for the
little girl. And that was clear as of a week ago, that the
parents were going to have to, you know, deal with questions
about this from the local media and now the national media.
Rightfully or wrongfully, I don't think we make a
judgment as to whether this should be part of the story. We
simply are telling our readers that it has become part of the
story, and you know, admittedly an intriguing aspect of the
story.
STEWART: And you say this information was
leaked through the police department?
FIGUEROA: It was
leaked to local media by sources in law enforcement. And I
want to clarify, it does not necessarily mean that it came
from the San Diego police department. They were very adamant
that they not be tainted as the leakers, because they are
obviously very upset. So keep in mind that there are multiple
law enforcement agencies involved in this investigation. There
are sheriff's departments, there are other police departments,
and the FBI as well. So these leaks could have come from any
number of police sources.
STEWART: John, let me get
you in on this. Is this a legitimate line of questioning for
the press and for the police, or only for one and not the
other? JOHN TIMONEY, FORMER PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMM.: Only
for one. Only for the police, and not for the press. It's
hard, you know, after a few days have elapsed, to keep the
press out, but certainly for the first couple of days the
police have to treat everybody as a suspect, number
one.
Number two, lifestyle does matter. Does the
lifestyle impact in regards to negligence or neglect or
leaving the child alone that may have helped contribute to the
kidnapping? Those are legitimate law enforcement questions.
The lifestyle being out in the public domain, vis-a-vis
reporters -- it will eventually get out there, but it
shouldn't get out there in the first two or three days.
People have to use good judgment, because in the vast
majority of these cases, they resolve themselves. The kid is
found at a neighbor's house, had left during the middle of the
night, went to a friend's house, and they get resolved. So
there is no sense sullying the reputation of the parents
unnecessarily. Eventually, this will come up. I thought early,
this came out way too early.
STEWART: Now, do police
officers ever leak information in the sense of, hey, you
reporters can go down this road, I can't as an official.
TIMONEY: First of all, police officers can go down any
road. You have to do it tactfully, and you have got to explain
to the parents. I mean, the Ramsey case is a classic example.
Everyone is a suspect, and you have to let them know, listen,
I'm just doing my job, I don't mean to be offensive, but I
need to ask certain questions. I need to go in a certain
direction. It may offend you, but I'm only doing my job. If
you handle it tactfully, you can ask almost any question.
STEWART: Arthur Barens, is this a legitimate line of
questioning for the press? Don't we have a right to know about
these things, especially when the family has come to the
media, and, in many cases, people believe have used the media.
ARTHUR BARENS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think
there is a legitimate expectancy of privacy in people's lives.
The fact is, the media, on the other hand, is the best
resource available to these or any other parents in an
analogous situation to locate their child. I think it's very
regrettable that the focus of this story is now going to
change from a kidnapped child to the curiosity and interest we
may have in the unusual or unconventional sex life that the
parents may have.
I think, again, it's a legitimate
inquiry for the police, to look at the environment surrounding
the child at the time of the possible abduction, but in terms
of the parents and the press right now, I think the press --
the interest of the parents in using the press is to find
their child. I think the interest of the press right now
should be in finding the child.
STEWART: All right. We
have got somebody in our audience who seems to agree with you.
A lot of folks seem to. Tell me about it, Maddux (ph).
MADDUX: Yeah, I agree with that. This case reminds me
of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) case, where the little girl was
snatched out her bedroom and subsequently murdered by this
lunatic pedophile. The problem now is that people are
focusing, because this swinging situation has come out, the
people are now going to be focusing on the parents and the
lifestyle, and that's going to take away from some of the time
needed to investigate who snatched this child.
BARENS:
I would agree with that. That absolutely backs my point on
this. Unfortunately, there may be more of an interest in sex
than in loss of the child. I'm not saying that's appropriate.
It's just an unfortunate thing that that may sell more copy
and more columns in a paper than does a missing child.
FIGUEROA: Alison, can I say something here?
STEWART: Absolutely. And we all of course have to
remember, Danielle, we don't know what has happened to
Danielle yet.
FIGUEROA: I just want to point out that
"Newsweek" was not the first news media outlet to, you know,
break this story or focus on the lifestyle of the parents. The
lifestyle of the parents had really been in the spotlight from
the beginning, namely because the mother had been out at a bar
or at a restaurant/bar with some girlfriends until 2:30 in the
morning.
She came home, and, you know, both parents
admit -- you know, the father was home with the children, but
they do say that they didn't check on their children, you
know, when the mother came home, and when the father woke up
and continued to hang out with the mother and two female
friends and two male friends. And they again didn't check on
the children, even though there were some indications that
something might have been amiss, namely an alarm system was
indicating that some doors were open.
So my point is
that the lifestyle of the parents really was raising some
eyebrows. And again, not to make a judgment call on this at
all, but people were sort of asking, where were the parents,
why didn't they check on this little girl or any of their
other children.
(CROSSTALK)
STEWART: John, it
just seems a natural thing that the parents' behavior would
have a difference. If these folks had been -- or any parents
who were in a situation like this -- had been, say, gambling
addicts, and they held Gamblers Anonymous meeting in their
homes or something like that, invited people in, they had
debts or something, wouldn't we be looking at that? Wouldn't
we be considering that, and wouldn't the news media be
printing that?
TIMONEY: No, again, I think -- I leave
it up to the news media. They have to use their own judgment.
The newspapers have got editors to make these calls, and I
just think looking at these cases over the years, it seems
like earlier and earlier we're getting into cases -- into
areas that really are not an essential part of the
investigation. They may be for law enforcement for the first
day or two, just to kind of clear the air, to make sure there
isn't anything amiss.
And as I say, eventually things
are going to get out, in regards to the lifestyle. But I think
early on, only because the vast majority of these cases get
resolved, you know, happily, with no issue, that you are
unnecessarily tainting or going into the private lives of
people whose lives should remain private, as the lawyer
correctly pointed out.
STEWART: All right. We have a
caller from Oregon who wants to weigh on this subject.
CALLER: Yeah, I think that the information about their
lifestyle choices has certainly got to be pertinent to the
police investigation, because that's going to widen the circle
of potential suspects, that type of thing. But you know, the
press has to tread lightly, and it does not mean that these
are horrible people who have responsibility for the
disappearance of their child. And the press has to be cautious
and careful and give these people some space on this.
STEWART: Let me ask the audience, if the news media --
if this information was out there and the news media didn't
report it, would this big hole that would be the elephant in
the room that no one is talking about is been -- people in the
media, news folks being delinquent? Anybody? What do you
think? Actually, we got a bunch of people back here from San
Diego, so let's get some opinions. Who said yes? Dave said
yes.
DAVE: I think that the press has a duty to report
it. I don't think they need to blow it out of proportion, but
they have a duty to report it so we know what's going on. And
then it's up to the police officers and their departments to
take it further and do the investigations.
STEWART:
How is this playing out in San Diego?
UNIDENTIFIED
MALE: Well, it became a little suspicious when I was watching
at the second day of coverage on television, when the mother
came on and was looking more like she was interested in
promoting herself than her lost child. That lady had more eye
makeup than Mimi on the "Drew Carey Show." I mean, very
suspicious.
STEWART: How did it play out in the San
Diego media, when you watch it at home?
UNIDENTIFIED
FEMALE: I think they are very concerned about the lost child,
and that's, you know, the number one thing. On television, it
doesn't seem like they have really talked about their
lifestyle. It's more in the newspaper that you read it that
way, but it always felt a little fishy. The whole thing was
just -- you know, you just got kind of a feeling that
something else was up and you didn't know what it was. And I
think maybe it might be that.
STEWART: Ana, as a
reporter, what do you think of the idea this family has used a
very powerful tool, the media, as any family probably would in
trying to find their child. Can you pick and choose when you
want to invite the media in and when you don't? FIGUEROA:
Well, I don't think you can. I mean, let's keep in mind that
this couple was very shrewd, and they realized early on that
they needed to sort of grab the media's attention to, you
know, make sure the pictures of this little girl were, you
know, were shown frequently. And they were successful. I mean,
this story now is in the national news cycle. And that was a
conscious decision that they made.
By the same token,
I think that they can't now say, look, we don't want, you
know, our personal life has nothing to do with it. Well, I
mean, this is their personal life. This is, you know, their
family life. Their child is missing. So...
TIMONEY: If
I can just jump in here for a second. I mean, I must
respectfully disagree, because the vast majority of
kidnappings or some other kind of heinous crime, folks do go
to the media with pictures, whether it's a missing kid, a
kidnapped kid. And so, using that rationale, the next time a
parent comes forward with a legitimate missing kid, they have
got to think, they got to give it a second thought, are we
going to go public because now people are going to investigate
my private life. I think that's a little -- that's a huge
stretch for the press.
BARENS: I think we're also -- I
wonder if -- I wonder if instead of talking about these people
being potential swings, supposing they were communists or
Muslims. What do we say about their personal life then? If
they have a different lifestyle than middle America, do we
say, well, let's report on that, because that makes them more
likely to endanger their child, or is it really still about
trying to find that child?
FIGUEROA: No, no. Clearly,
it's still about trying to find their child. I mean, nobody is
saying that people should be judged because of what they do
with other consenting adults.
And the point is that
this story had become quite a big story in San Diego. And the
parents' attention was being deflected by having to answer
questions about this. And it continues to be part of the
story. And, quite frankly, the reason it is part of the story
is because it's unclear, you know, if it had any connection to
the disappearance of their child. We don't know that it did.
But there is still police sources that have leaked a
lot more information than we put in the magazine to indicate
that it did have some connection. And, you know, we don't go
public with everything that we hear from the police. But I
think it's taking the argument somewhat to the absurd to say
we would publish any aspect of their lifestyle.
(CROSSTALK)
STEWART: Folks, guests, we are
going to stop there because we need take a quick break. We
want to also remind people of course this is opinion and
speculation. But we will get back to the subject absolutely in
just a few minutes. We have got to take a quick news break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEWART: Welcome back to TALKBACK
LIVE. We just saw what Frank from New York thinks.
And
I want to let -- I believe it was John. You wanted to respond
earlier before the break, correct?
TIMONEY: No, I just
wanted to challenge Analyst. I think I disagree with her or
else I misunderstood her. I thought she said that, once you go
public with the pleading, then your private life becomes
public.
FIGUEROA: No, I didn't not say
that.
TIMONEY: OK, all right, then I'm
wrong.
FIGUEROA: I said that issues about your private
life, these people have to answer them, it seems to me, if
they are going to ask the media for help. And there are these
pervasive issues about their private life that perhaps could
have some link to the fact that someone has gone into their
house, apparently, and taken their child.
Then I think
it is not unfair to expect them to be prepared to answer
questions of the media. Now, as I said earlier, I am not
making a judgment whether this stuff should have come out or
not. We did not bring it out. But it is out there.
Now,
I also want to say that I admire them for the fact that they
have got the gumption to keep coming out. I mean, if this came
out and if it is true -- again, we don't know if it is true or
not -- but assuming it is true, they are still coming out
every day, talking to the press, dealing with humiliating
questions. A lot of other parents would have just said: Look,
forget it. It's too embarrassing. We are not going to go out
there.
So I got to give them credit for getting their
act together and coming out every day, now knowing that there
is this side issue that is going to be asked of them. And to
me, that shows that they are very much determined to find
their daughter at the cost of perhaps some embarrassment to
them.
(CROSSTALK)
BARENS: I think there would
be a better way of doing, through getting a spokesman, or
getting a lawyer to donate his time or her time to go out and
handle those questions.
FIGUEROA: Well, they have
spokespeople. They have spokespeople. They have had a series
of spokespeople.
And they have been confronted with
these questions, these leaks from the law enforcement. And
they have answered them by saying -- not by denying, but by
saying: We want the focus to be on our daughter. And I think
the focus is on their daughter.
STEWART: Arthur
Barens, we are going to give you the last word on this.
BARENS: Well, again, I am concerned about having a
chilling effect on the legitimate use of the press for people
to find a missing child. It is regrettable that, I believe --
and excuse my cynicism -- that the focus of this story is
going to shift, for better or worse, to the sexual history of
these parents rather than the tragedy of the missing
child.
In any of these cases, I dare say there is
hardly anyone you could not dig up dirt on if you look hard
enough. I think the issue is, this child is missing. The press
can play a very, very helpful role in finding this child. And
that is what it should be concerned with.
(CROSSTALK)
TIMONEY: I second that.
STEWART: All right,
Arthur Barens, John Timoney, and Ana Figueroa, we thank you
all very much for joining you us today and sharing your
opinions and your expertise.
FIGUEROA: Thank
you.
STEWART: We are going to take a break and do a
little Valentine's dance.
Still ahead: a rejection
line for those who hand you a line.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was like, "You look like that
'Sex in the City' girl," just like all in my face as I was
trying to walk down the street. So I was like, "Do you want my
number?"
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is always, always
alcohol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART: Is this
heartbreaker for softies, cowards or cads?
.gif)
.gif)
.gif){kind=small}